Category: philosophy/religion topics
Hello all. I have been wondering something. I've heard so much about soul winning and witnessing, and I desire (as most christians do) to share christ with everyone. So, how does one do this? I'd like to tell some of my unbeliever friends on facebook about Jesus, as well as telling some people I go to school with about the salvation Christ has made available for them. (This thread is for christians only. You may read, but you may post [as long as there is no bashing of christianity].)
Sorry, but last time I checked, you didn't decide who posts and does not post to these boards. because this is a family friendly board, and also as a firm atheist, I will say this: You're more likely to get others to at least respect your beliefs if you simply leave them alone about it. I'm sure most people know these beliefs exist. if they haven't explored them, or showed any interest themselves, it's probably better it be left that way. Let them come to their own conclusions.
Why not leave them in peace? Let them make their own choices
Jessica, I'm going to have to disagree with you there, because I believe he has every right to post something like this, and also because other Christians might benefit from this board topic. While I respect the fact that you are an Atheist and you have your own beliefs, I believe you should give him his space as well.
All over the boards, there are questions to specific groups of users.
I posed one over a year ago specifically to people in the medical profession.
Targeted questions happen all the time in real life, say, "Anyone have a chevy? got a question about ..."
This is completely and totally normal human behavior.
Given how most religion based topics tend to devolve into a religion Vs atheism debate, I think it makes complete sense there has been a target set.
There is no one answer for you Blindcool. The reason is everyone is different, and circumstances change. While you'll be able to have a healthy conversation about religion with many people, being a good missionary is about much more than telling people. A firm testamony of Christ is based on our personal experiences, study and faith in him. As a Christian myself, I have to admit however that there's nothing more frustrating than people coming up to me and telling me how I should live my life and believe in Christ. Many people equate missionary work with pretentious preaching. There's no "right" way of baring witness of God. But building a strong testamony, studying the scriptures to obtain understanding of his gospel, and above all learning to follow the promptings of the Holy Ghost are essential.
Jesus said "By thy fruits shall ye know them." Be a "good" Christian. Lead by example. People will notice how you act, what you do and how you speak. Be an example of Christ-like love, and that will speak louder than any few words. One of the biggest reasons people have a problem with Christianity is because some Christians are very pushy, and don't at all practice what they preach. But we can be a beacon of light and hope to a world which seeks comfort in darkness if we only go about it the right way. Be peaceful, kind and keep your head when people don't agree with you.
Michael, I didn't say he can't post this topic, and I also didn't say others couldn't answer as they see fit, but he said, "Christians only". Unfortunately, he can't keep others from posting who disagree, as long as they do so in appropriate manner. if the staff had meant for this topic to be christians only, they'd have called it "Christian topics", or something like that.
"Christians only" is an unchristian attitude which is against Jesus' teachings.
I, a non-Christian, will post my answer to your question, for you and for anybody else who wants to convert people to Christianity.
You want to convince people on the Zone or on Facebook or somewhere else that they should be Christians. Wait! Below I'll explain why you should wait.
To persuade people that they should be Christians you must engage them in conversation. To do this, post something that will get a reaction.
Some people who don't share your beliefs will attack and dismiss your beliefs. You may not like their responses, but these are your targets - the people you're trying to convince.
Why don't you like their responses? Is one reason that you feel challenged by their responses?
Now you know why you should wait, I will tell you what you need to do while you wait.
You need to think about the answers to the responses you are likely to receive. I will give a few examples of responses you may receive.
"How do you know God exists?"
"The Bible is just a fairytale."
"How do you know you're saved?"
"If God is loving, why did he kill so many people?"
"If God is loving, why do people get raped? "Why are their natural disasters? "Why do children who believe in God starve to death?"
"Religion is the cause of all wars."
It isn't enough to simply be able to answer these questions, because the purpose of your discussions isn't simply to provide information to the people with whom you interact. You need to answer each of these questions convincingly. You need to be prepared for follow-up questions. If your answers are convincing, they will stand up to scrutiny. I believe my beliefs stand up to scrutiny. When you believe the same and can answer the responses of those you want to convert, you will be ready to start converting people.
If you try converting people before you're fully prepared, you are more likely to fail.
Well said, Senior.
Agreed. if you are going to try to convince people, that's what you'll need to attempt. But this isn't your guaranteed guide to success, either.
The bible is not a fairytale, there are absolutely no fairies in the bible; unless you count angels, they kinda look the same, but I digress. Its mythology, not fairtytales. Other than that, I totally agree.
I also want to pledge my support to those who say you can't just say christians only and expect to have it. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If you want it to be christians only, go to a christians only website. This, contrary to popular belief, is not a christians only website; much as you would like it to be.
I want people to see a reflection of Christ in the way I live. When they ask me about whatever it is that they see is different, then I can tell them specifics. People will know what I believe, but I don't talk about it unless I'm asked or unless I'm otherwise sure that it's an appropriate time to mention something related to my faith. Most importantly, I just try to see people the way Yeshua did--still does--and to treat them accordingly. If He is reflected in your life, people will know...and when they ask, then you will know they are open to hearing what you have to say. It's important to respect people, no matter who they are and what they believe, and that means accepting that you can't "change" them.
I can definitely see the sense in that as well. it's great to see we have some open minded people around here.
Very astute Bethany. If that was the rule rather than the exception there'd probably be a lot less damage control required.
Sorry guys. I'm just so sick of christians creating threads that weren't intended for debate, and then everyone's debating like crazy. I appologize for what I said earlier.
Rose, very well said. Some people just have no hope of changing, and you'll just have to accept that and move on. But pray for that person, of course. I think that's important. It doesn't mean you're trying to change them, it just means you're thinking of them.
Just don't tell them too loudly or they might think you're doing some of that wierd Christian voodoo mind control on them.
Nothing wrong with a Christians only topic. Or an atheists only topic. Or a teens only topic. Not that people with opposing views are forbidden from posting, but these people should be allowed their space, just as we all are with various topics on the boards.
But that's just it, I don't see a christians only topic, or an atheist only topic. I see a topic related to teens, but it never once says its teens only. There's no girls only, guys only, whites only, blacks only, blind only, sighted only,left-handed only, right-handed only, singles only, married only, or really any other type of secluding topics. Everyone is free to post to any board they choose to. So to ask for a board to be christians only, or for me to ask for a post to be Atheists only, is ludicrous. as I've said before, if you want it to be christians only, go to a christian site. I do it if I want a post to be atheist only. If I post anything about atheism on this site, I welcoem and invite christians to post to it. Its a public site, there can be no seclusion.
If you want to meet no opposition, I suggest you, well, don't speak at all, to anyone, about anything. But if you want the least chance of opposition possible, try aiming your questions at a group in such a way that only people from that group will see and respond to you. Try joining a christian mailing list, perhaps. Now, there's no absolute guarantee that an atheist, or someone from any other faith won't join, but they'll be more of a rarity than they will be in a place like this where any subject is openly encouraged, on one board or another.
To be fare though, some people just genuinely like to post to create drama, or contention. I think one's motives for posting their oppinions make at least some difference. Some people contribute to a discussion, while others simply enjoy waggling their virtual tongues and shooting down other people. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specific, just generalizing.
Hence me saying there's no guarantee you won't meet an atheist on a christian mailing list, for example, but it will be a lot less likely that you will see opposition there than you will here.
This site is very entertaining!
@Cody if and only if you were right.
The truth is groups with minority status can have a theirs-only club all they want, but you can't. You and I. If we want to have a boys-only cigar club with every one of the trimmings. You know who will show up shouting shrilly on account of discrimination. But they will have theirs all they want.
At University, I remember there was a Black Student Lounge, among other places.
So I do disagree with you: Those places do abound and are plentiful. You're just like many of us, a white male and for that reason never darkened the door of said places.
I'm not saying they don't exist Leo. I fully admit they exist, I belong to several myself, Atheistic, cigar smokers, and classic shavers to name but three. On those sites I am free to post what I wish about those subjects, and the rest of the people on there, who share my views for the most part, will support and/or agree with me. I am not saying by any means that places like that do not exist, nor that they do not have their place. I think they are good things to an extent.
What I am saying, however, is that this is not one of them. This is, at the farthest stretches of the imagination, a blind forum. That is to say, it is geared mostly toward the visually impaired. However, the sighted are equally welcome.
This forum is for all, and as such, no one party can segrogate a portion of it for their own use. They may publish subjects, but they cannot forbid anyone else from posting a contrary view. That is not what this is for.
There are hundreds of christian forums, some more radical than others, (take a look at godhatessinners.com for an example), and to those forums you are more than welcome to post such a topic that is only for the opinions of christians. However, this is not one of those topics, and thus you forfeit that luxury by posting it here.
Ah I take your point. Think I will give that particular forum a miss. The two of us with guardian in the name may again be getting confused with one another.
Possibly, for which I appologize.
haha, you'd think they'd be used to it by now Leo. THough in this case I can't see how. You never know.
To be fair to the OP, he has apologised and explained himself. I accept his apology, and recommend he takes my advice in post 8 if he still wants to convert other people to his beliefs.
I am a christian. Before I was I was gay for years. Once I became Christian and realized that that life is not pleasing to Jesus I thought ooh I got to let all my other friends know it is a sin bla bla. After thinking about it and praying about it though for me what is truly a tride and true method is for them to see me being an authintic Christian. For me what brings my friends around is seeing me pray to God in public, the love I show people, and trying not to judge people. My relationship with Jesus is one many especially in these end times don't follow but shoving it down peoples throats is not the way to go at all.
So, then, you have to love Jesus and have a relationship with God to be able to show love? How sad...
I don't think that was what he was saying at all. He never once said you need to be a Christian to show love. But being a follower of Christ means striving to show christ-like love. This means loving others unconditionally, doing all you can to provide meaningful service to others and not passing judgment on imperfect people, because we're no better than they are. Yes, a great many "Christians" don't follow these tennants, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.
I would hope I have not come off judgmental to any of you atheists. If I have, I appologize.
Blind guardian, you said exactly what I was thinking about saying. Nicely put.
still, it seems you and others are implying that we, as atheists are incapable of showing unconditional love and not judging how others live their lives. that's far from accurate. I think that's exactly what Jess was getting at. you don't need religion, or, as some of you say, a relationship with God to be a loving, compassionate, and overall good human being.
yes, but the poster in question was saying that the way they spread the word is by praying in public, and showing love, as if by showing this love, others will be inspired to become a Christian as well. Why should love even factor into this if that's not what they were trying to say?
I think the way we treat others definately affects how others view our religion. After all, the point has been made time and time again that tons of terrible things were done in the name of religion. THis is absolutely true. But it's true because of people, not religion. Many Christian fundimentalists (to say nothing of other religions) justify terrible acts in the name of their God. In doing so they turn people away. No wonder there are atheists! Who'd want to believe in a church who does such terrible things. There are absolutely some wonderful Atheists out there, people who would give you the shirt off their backs without question. And God will remember them too, in the end.
that's flattering. But, alass, we didn't accept his gift of salvation, so ultimately it doesn't matter.
First of all, the bible says to not pray in public, and I agree with it. yes, I agreed with the bible, it does happen. it says go in a closet and pray to your father. I invite you to do so, your closet is a wonderful place to do this, mostly because I am not in your closet.
Next, you are right in claiming that religions do terrible things, but you are wrong in saying it is because of people, not religions. First, what is a religion but a bunch of people who agree on the same bedtime stories, and second, religions are full of things that are cruel. God turned lot's wife into a pillar of salt, that had no humans in it at all except lot's wife. God makes humans in his image, tempts them into sinning, then gets pissed off because they sinned and kills practically all of them. How was that humans fault? we didn't plant the tree, god did, we didn't give ourselves curiosity, god did, we didn't forget to tell us what it was to die, god did. How is that our fault?
I don't not believe there is a god because of the crusades or because of catholics trying to tell african people not to use the condums that would keep them from getting aids, or because of the massacres done by the mormans in missouri and ohio, or because of the idiotic people in west virginia who pick up poisonous snakes because a part of the bible tells them they can. I don't believe in God because of God, not because of humans. I hate religion because of what it does, I am an Atheist because God doesn't exist. Two separate issues.
far from flattering, in my view. it's disturbing that blind guardian couldn't just leave it at their being good atheists in the world. he had to add, "in the end, God recognizes them, too".
Oh how I wish I was articulate enough to explain the truth behind the Gospel.
It almost appears some of you are actually insulted by the idea that God remembers you. It's one thing to not believe it, but to actually be insulted is something I don't really understand. You can choose to accept him, , or you can reject him. One of the greatest gifts we're given is our freedom to choose for ourselves. Your perceptions may change once your mortal time is up. or perhaps they won't. I only hope when you stand before him, you'll have a true understanding of who and what he is.
Lightning, if you disagree with the term "religion" then let me rephrase. The scriptures did not tell us to do the bad things we do, we choose to do them. Those horrible actions were done out of greed, envy, lust, power-hunger and a misunderstanding of the scriptures. The real problem with religion is not that it exists, but that it is plagued by the misguided philosophies of man, mingled with scripture.
. I'm not disagreeing that some pretty horrible things were done by God himself in the old testament. I do however have a different perception of some of those deeds than you do. God does not pass judgement without a ton of fair warning. He loves us, and he wants us to mend our ways. In ancient times, as now he sends inspired prophets to warn the nations. The old Testament is full of these men. Some of them were great men, others rose to greatness, and others were great, then fell. But people hate being told what they're doing is wrong. These days Lightning I can talk of my God to you and mere disagreement and another perspective in return. But the people of the times murdered these prophets for what they were saying. They refused to heed the warnings; they even killed the Son of God, the Massiah whose coming was foretold in their scriptures, and who not only never hurt anyone, but actively saught to heal anyone who came to him. They sacrificed, killed, and were altogether not very good people. God did destroy some of them, those whom continuously ignored his warnings. Sodam and Gamora are two such examples. The flood is another. Yet he would have spared them. He destroyed them to spare the nations surrounding them from suffering at their hands. He does not smight cities so long as there are at least some good people to be found in them. There are stories of God sparing, or at least wanting to spare many cities. There is even the City of Enok, a cidy full of such good people that God took it from this world and into his presence. But when you have people killing, raping and destroying one another, and they just won't stop, what are you supposed to do about it? I don't agree with killing. But what would have happened if some of these societies would have been allowed to continue in their harmful practices? You talk of him specifically ordering the raping and stoning of women and children, yet you have yet to provide a concrete example of that. And if you dain to do so, I will certainly do what I can to explain it.
In the end, vengence is the lord's, NOT ours. We are to be a peaceful people. We are to defend ourselves of course, but our first priority should always be peace. Love thy enimy, bless those who curse you, do not turn against those who despitefully use you. Those are commandments. It's not God's fault we humans apparently find it difficult to be a peaceful species. Just look at the most recent wars. This is the natural man, and this is what the gospel of Jesus Christ is trying to get us to overcome.
Why does God allow bad things to happen? Free will. We are free to choose, and every choice has an outcome. Our trials strengthen and test us. We're here on earth to learn, to grow, to experience and to grow in wisdom and intelligence. That's the whole point. God gave us the freedom to choose what we do, and who we follow. It was Lucifer who wanted to strip us of that free will. He wanted us all to have no choice, but to accept things just because. Blind faith is never the answer.
And yes, the Bible does indeed say not to pray in public. The reason being because in the old days (as now) many people prayed loudly in order to be recognized by others. Prayer is a private and peaceful communication with God. Public prayer is fine in the correct setting and with the correct heart. You can pray for or with someone in an intimate setting, or you can say a prayer to yourself. It mainly means don't draw unneeded attention to yourself.
I only hope when you stand before him, you'll have a true understanding of who and what he is.
How am I gonna stand before him when I'm dead. I won't have a body anymore, duh?
I can't be insulted that you say he remembers me, because I believe he does not exist. But, in a hypothetical sense, if for whatever reason I did believe that he did, then my previous statement would apply. It's flattering he remembers the good that even those who don't believe in him do, but alass, it ultimately doesn't matter.
as has been stated time and time again, blind guardian and others, we can't be insulted by something we don't believe in. I simply felt the statement about their being good atheists should've been left at that; that's where my frustration came from.
I love Jesus. The most important thing to me is that the people who know me know this. I love to talk about the One I love, and I love to listen to others talk about what they're passionate about. I just pray that I learn to live the way Jesus leads me to, and the rest will followw.
How can you love a guy you've never even met? Or, have you built a time machine?
I will paraphrase a friend of mine who is in his fifties.
Someone recently asked if he knew anything about Jesus. His response went something like:
"No. I mean, I'm white, was raised in Texas, I'm fifty-some-odd years-old, and have never heard a thing about the most dominant religion of the past 1500 years."
I found that kind of funny when he told me this.
Something to think about: it's threaded through western culture to such a degree that even Atheists reference Christianity and not just to argue.
Part of what happened 1500 years or so ago was that the Romans converted to Christianity, their ruler did, and by that effort Rome did what Rome did best: codify and provide infrastructure to an organization - the early church. After that, as they continued their westward advances, into the territory of your ancestors (if you're white), and attempted to civilize (convert) all of them. The best thing for it was for Rome to paint the prior societies as savages, paint all their icons and other cultural facets as counter to the new, trendy and popular religion, and so could confiscate property and dissolve alliances more easily. The so-called religious tolerance of Rome was only in effect before Christianity, and it was only polytheistic tolerance. They would persecute contemporary atheists as much as they did Christians, if they could have.
That landslide is how Christianity became so popular. And guess what? It's still popular. Christian events that come to your local amphitheaters and stadiums are packed. It's extremely popular. I know part of the ideology is a pretense of minority status, something I could never rationalize myself when I was one. The numbers just don't match.
My guess anyone you find who isn't interested, either has their own connection to Christianity now, or has made up their mind about it. It's like trying to go hand-to-hand advertising for McDonald's. Everybody since 1955 knows about McDonald's, everyone's perception is maybe a little bit different. Maybe you have some insight into the nutritional value of its food, maybe you feel McDonald's is unfairly picked on. But like Christianity, it owns more real estate and has more staff than any of its contenders worldwide. Its followers want to imagine themselves a quaking minority, but they are the major political party in the U.S., they own the most popular Fox News channel if not directly certainly as viewers and stockholders, their churches carry more political clout combined than any other single interest group.
And when they don't get their way, they cry, and it's rather pathetic, as though King Cong went howling to the emergency room over a booboo or a hangnail.
Again, it is really quite pathetic, dishonorable, and rather unmanly if you ask me. Nothing like their predecessors who were oppressed by Rome and would have considered it a boon to get a hundredth of what sway they now have.
So go ahead if you would like, certainly if someone approaches you and has their own questions that is honorable to respond. But to go proselytizing for Christianity is a bit like one person taking it on themselves to go advertise for McDonalds, as though others had never seen the billboards or the commercials or smelled the food as they walked by.
We've all marinated in it, because even in what we think of as a secular state, it still remains the State de facto religion and philosophy of all Roman-conquered nations and those of us nations who sprang from Roman-conquered nations.